Google Harbouring a new Cult - 'What is the Plan?'

Ok so here we have a new cult on the internet and I have already done a video and a blog about the Rick Ross cult. Now I am going to be doing an overview of the cult called ‘The Plan’ and in the description box I will place the link, where you can see the discussion taking place and I will show you how this cult uses specific brainwashing techniques on their members, within the use of specific words, specific emotion generators, specific placement of words and sentences. Where they know that if you place information in a specific way, thus you are assuming the information yourself, but by placing it in such a way that you are going to create a mystery and an unanswered question within the placement of the information, it is going to generate suspicion and doubt in the other members.

Therefore their inclination, because they are already participating in this cult, their tendency to be brainwashed is so prevalent that they are going to take the suspicion that you are generating in the placement of words and they are going to believe the information and they are going to get hyped up into generating more suspicion and doubt.
This is how these cults function. Basically what the members of the cult do, the founder members is that they will place specific words and sentences to create hysteria, to create doubt, to create fear in people about other people. They will use misinformation to get that effect in people. This is how they eventually brainwash their members.

So here the specific post that I am referring to is where they are discussing the group called Desteni and I am going to go to each post that stands out specifically to show you the techniques that the group uses. First of all here we have a member called “jackydee” whom goes and places information where he has done his best to take down the group Desteni and basically what he did was, he was the one whom was responsible he claims, for going to the internet host of Desteni and convincing Hetzner that they had to remove Desteni by providing false information about the content of the website.

He then goes on to providing bank details, which he gets from various pages of our website in the hopes that this will ‘prove’ that Desteni is involved in some money making scam. So, if you go and you take somebody’s banking details from their website or a page that they provide and you place the banking details, this according to them is evidence that a person is busy with a money making scam, because they say here ‘here’s a list of their bank accounts. As you can see that in itself it is rather dodgy.’ How is it ‘dodgy’ that people have bank accounts first of all?




Then he goes on to describe how Esteni De Wet and Bernard Poolman met. So the fact that Esteni here describes how she met Bernard, how they started their business together, that Esteni was in a relationship and that the relationship ended and she started a relationship with Bernard – this is again an example of how cult members here are using every day experiences that normal people would have, they as the members of that forum have had these experiences themselves, but they are misrepresenting the information on this particular forum to create a hype within the people who are reading it. They are changing the information and the context, so that it is all of a sudden very mysterious and very suspicious how these two people got into a relationship.

Then they go onto referring to information about some De Wet person who had a bankruptcy case and Bernard Poolman had an insolvency estate and that this in itself is ground for accusing the group called Desteni that they are busy with some world annihilation, child abusing, woman abusing cult. They cannot even prove that these are the members who are involved with Desteni. Half of the time they are saying ‘oh look here is somebody who has the surname ‘De Wet’, which is the same surname as one of the founding members of Desteni. So again misrepresenting information to create doubt, to create fear in people, to deliberately generate hate in people on this website.



The next person goes on to indicate that ‘I heard that they were chased off Youtube, then Vimeo, and I had planned on letting the next hosts know about this history of ‘Multi-Marketing’. This person goes on to admit and he’s called ‘Deadpool’ and he is one of the major players here on this forum, where he assists in brainwashing everybody by taking pieces of information and making more out of it than what it is. He is here admitting that he is initiating harmful actions against the group called Desteni by actually encouraging other groups, whom have an involvement with Desteni through the misinformation and misrepresentation of the information as I am indicating to you here. Because all they need to do is they need to say to a hosting company or to a group that is involved with Desteni ‘oh this is what these people are actually saying within the material that they represent’ and because there are existing laws that they can play on and because there are fears that they can play on and fear mongering you just need to use words like Hitler and other groups are prone to believing it for the sake of themselves not having to end up in trouble, such as in the case of Youtube. These members are admitting that they were involved in an action, due to false flagging to get DesteniProductions removed. So they themselves are participating in a false action to get a group removed.



The next person here is called ‘calico cat’, very fascinatingly has a little picture of ‘stop animal abuse’ with a little kitten and this person goes and says ‘due to your location have you learnt of any abuse done to members on that farm? There was a video removed by Youtube that seems to indicate a rape and killing of a woman’.

Any validity to this? Now that video that we uploaded was specifically done because we received daily mails from people saying that we abuse people on the farm. So of course, we are not afraid to laugh in the face of complete self brainwashing (chuckles) and these people did this to themselves. They already brainwashed themselves with the fear of what is a cult, what is not a cult and they looked at certain key aspects of what we were doing as a group and we were speaking up against world abuse and we were straight, getting to the point and saying that religion is abuse, the family system as it currently is, is abuse, ascension is abuse, culture is abuse. Anything currently in this world is founded on the principle of ego and the principle of making money to serve the rich and therefore everything that exist currently does not take into consideration all beings on this planet equally, to actually support the human being to become more effective. Everything exists currently to bully the human being into fitting into the current system and we point those things out.

From the beginning there were groups that had a big problem with what we did, so they would pick up on key points and shout ‘cult cult, you’re a cult’. So of course what did we do? We made a funny video starring myself where we filmed us torturing and kidnapping and killing people, just to show who on the internet was extremely brainwashed by themselves. We uploaded these videos, obviously each video contained the people who had been killed in the previous video, were being killed again in the next video or were the killers. Obviously we did this to indicate how brainwashed somebody has to be to not even notice that from one video to the next video the exact same people are there. You know what happened? Exactly as we suspected, the people went up in arms and said ‘this is proof that this cult is killing people, oh my god look at what they are doing.’ It was hilariously funny. I mean the comments that were coming in were ‘how dare you do this to these people, I wonder of the authorities know about this, I am going to tell the authorities’ and ‘how can the authorities allow you to post this video on YouTube, why are there not taking you down?’ Well first of all YouTube allows softporn, YouTube allows videos of children beating themselves up and each other up, YouTube allows videos of extensive fight clubs. So let’s not get started on what YouTube will allow and what YouTube will not allow. I mean YouTube as the big group that it currently is, would not even exist if it wasn’t for sensationalism and if it wasn’t for the fact that they would allow violence and pornography and sex on their own web site. So please don’t make it out as if YouTube actually stands up for anything or that YouTube in any way represents what is decent or what is fair, because they only work on what people want to see.

So, if people want to use false flagging to remove a group, they will remove a group. But if everybody on YouTube agrees as it is currently that soft porn is alright and videos of people fighting are fine, then it is fine. Then YouTube will allow it. They themselves do not stick to their own community guidelines. They won’t go about scanning videos and making sure that videos get removed. I mean myself as the user, if I come across 10, to 20 to 50 soft porn videos just in doing random searches on YouTube, then why can they themselves not have a committee of people responsible for removing that trash? Why? Because sex sells. Violence sells. This is what the kids and the people want to watch that are watching YouTube, therefore YouTube in itself is a cult where people get to come and watch their secret nasty mind, backchat, secret mind desires and fantasies and lie about why they are actually on Youtube. ‘Oh it is a fun community, because we get to watch videos’. Really? What people are really watching is represented in what YouTube is really allowing and that through false flagging groups that work with establishing Equality so that everybody can have food and a place to live, those groups get flagged, false flagged and get removed.



So let’s continue with this forum thread here. This ‘deadpool’, again using extensive brainwashing techniques to create confusion and fear in people will go ‘have you see this picture of Bernard (the leader) and Darryl (the fallout guy), where Bernard is giving the finger to the camera? Would love to know more about this ‘encounter'. Uh, by ‘this encounter’, what this ‘deadpool’ is trying to encourage in people is creating an idea that something happened between Bernard and the camera man. That this encounter perhaps existed because the camera man got onto the farm and tried to take pictures of Bernard , the ‘cult leader’ and Bernard turned around and pulled his finger at this person. Ehm no, it was actually a visitor on the farm and we were playing around with the cameras and Bernard had said ‘I don’t want the main focus becoming about me, I want the people who use the tools from Desteni, they can have their pictures and video on the internet. I don’t want it becoming about me because in the past it has always become about ‘the leader’, the ‘guru’ and then people make more out of the person who walked the tools first and then was able to present it and form a bigger group that represent the tools, it always becomes about people making more out of that person than what is necessary.’ He did not want this. He has made it very clear in his interviews and in information that we have placed on the internet that he didn’t want it becoming about him. So of course the joke was that when this person took the photo of him for their own personal collection because they were visiting the farm, he pulled his finger at the camera. A joke, but again these people are using this information to brainwash everybody else on this thread through fear, to believe something that is not relevant.


Then ‘deadpool’ in his next post goes on to say ‘on the Desteni forum we have seen 200 members as only the public front door. See the above video on anti-hate and a previous porn, spam attack, the original main forum experienced in the past. They locked it away because of that it seems. Basically in terms of viable operations attacking their public forum would be as successful as putting a burning bag of turn on their doorstep. We need a deeper infiltration for any kind of impact. I hope that doesn’t require taking any courses from these parasites.’ So again here ‘deadpool’ is encouraging people to create malicious actions and hateful actions against Desteni, such as actually admitting here that he is going to launch an internet attack on our websites.



Next we have a member called “Durandarte”, from New York. This person posts information that he got off one of our WebPages, where we are now moving to a new domain “News: Desteni transferring site, saw on their current website. New site still under construction.’ And he gives the link which refers you to our new domain. ‘we would have to make sure to hit this site hard when going against them, they should be venerable to spamming, trolling, and other attacks in the next few weeks, so this site will make a prime target when the op begins…’ again indicating here that these people are coming together here and planning to actually be vindictive and nasty against Desteni and that there is a whole group of them involved in this and that they are sweeping each other up here into an action of maliciousness.



Now with regards to the responsibility of Google and the people who run these forums, they are busy with terrorism; they are busy allowing members to plan hateful actions against another group. We have already, and this we are recording, we have found many posts similar to these. You see these are referring to internet attacks and we have already come across people on the internet people who are discussing actually attacking us on the farm. The responsibility of allowing such a mind set to develop to such a point, where somebody would actually say ‘I am going to make sure their farm gets burnt down’, now such actions always begin somewhere and they begin on these cult forums. What happens Is that on these ‘cult-get-together-forums’, you have an idea being presented, you have the personal interests of the members involved, whatever it is that they are busy with in their own minds, the hatred that exists within them towards other groups and they do not care what harm is done. Here I have shown you just one snippet of how information is taken, how it is misrepresented, how it is twisted and then eventually the members of this cult will brainwash each other into believing whatever new information they have just placed, by taking assumptions and twisting them into making it into something it is not. Then eventually down the line, you have groups here admitting that they are attacking us on the internet, or at least ‘attempting to’ and that some of them would actually physically come to us and cause us harm.

Such cults need to be eradicated and removed off the internet. It is the responsibility, and I suggest that the Hosting Domains and the Web Servers and the Hosting Services like Google must take responsibility for these hate campaigns. I mean talk about creating a group of terrorists. We have all becomes so use to viewing terrorists as people in religious garb, who will go and bomb the shit out of a place for their god and because they hate America, but that is not the real terrorism going on. Yes there is that terrorism of which parts of it have happened in the past and it is valid and some of it is not valid and most of it is being used currently to create fear, but that is another topic and I am not going to go into that right now. I am talking about this form of terrorism which is actually playing out here on websites and nobody is doing anything about it, it is being allowed. Why is it being allowed? I mean if you are seeing a militant, terrorist, underground group openly on websites discussing how they are planning on attacking another group, the American CIA and the anti-terrorists groups would be all over this and Google and their web hosts would be forced to shut these websites down.

So here my point is that I am the ‘cult-infotainment-educator’ and all these people here have a good laugh because, well they make me laugh, because they consider themselves ‘cult-experts’ just like Rick-Ross whom gave himself the title of ‘cult-expert’ and these people are allowing themselves, by giving themselves the title of ‘cult-expert’ to say anything they want. So I am going to call myself a ‘cult-expert’ and I am from now on going to be giving actual evidence of cults existing on the internet that are planning and do execute harmful actions against other groups.

Here you will find the original discussion: http://www.whatis-theplan.org/t13887p75-cult-is-brewing-and-anon-needs-to-put-a-stop-to-it#169482


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Demonology Forum Perspective: Sex Addiction

Demonology Forum Perspective: Sex Addiction

Original thread: http://demonology.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=655&p=1329#p1329

What I found to be the most effective was the following:

When I decided to stop masturbating for at least a 6 months, I would fall on the point of saying 'oh well what harm will it do etc'. Now what I realised about this small points - and this is where you have to be self honest with yourself - is that they exist as excuses to not fully give up the addiction to sex/masturbation. So then instead of stopping I made a deal with myself that I would only masturbate once a week. What was imperative for me to note here though was that if I did go for longer than one week -say a month without masturbation, then I would start having dreams, headaches etc, thus my body was programmed into and as the mind, as the addition. So I realized that I had to, for myself take a stand and stop masturbating for at least 4 months, because this would clearly show if I would fall or not. so I did and I had many experiences in which my body would react as the programming existent within the sex system.

When these experiences would come up, I would breathe through them, realising that they are outflows of a system that I have already designed through years of addiction to sex. For example for days I would think about sex, attempting to rationalize this as 'I am thinking about sex because I am deliberately stopping my natural self expression'. This is not natural self expression but a possession. The physical naturally expresses itself, however the mind turns it into an obsession and addiction because of energy.

So - as you mentioned in your post - each one makes that decision to stop an addition once they realize that the addiction is directing them and they are not directing themselves. Thus, in self honesty observe for example the intense desire in you to touch. You might ask the question - 'should this really be such an issues?' If you observe what is happening you will notice that the desire for touch is still one aspect of the same addiction to sex. it has simply 'focused' itself specifically into the desire for hugging, touching - because you are forcing the mind into 'fewer options'. Thus if you observe - the desire to touch another is still based on an idea. So - you have already walked through many points - very cool. Now you are at the last point one could say - where the mind will use the last desperate attempts to get you to give in. Observe the following - and this you probably realised - when you initially would stop an addiction - that desperate feeling you get as an almost 'physical take-over/possession' where you feel yourself almost unable to stop - that is the mind going into possession to get you to touch. This would be interpreted as 'I desire so strongly to do what is natural'. In the mind one will change the actual information to suit what one wants to hear, so in essence the mind is blaming you for depriving yourself of something 'so natural'. However - you will be able to tell if this is the same addiction pattern playing out.

How does one know this is the exact same addiction?

If anything moves inside you, be it a thought in relation to wanting to touch, or a physical experience - then you know it is the mind reacting to not having its energy fix. Remember - addictions work with the experience of energy. So be it watching pornography, masturbating or touching someone, whatever moves in you as a result of what you are doing - is energy. Some points have an energy that is associated as uncomfortable and some have an energy that is pleasant. Either way we have defined energy that moves through the physical as either pleasant or unpleasant and your mind is using the energies that it knows you do not like and want to get away from to push you into getting the energy that it really is addicted to. So be observant of any movements inside of you - because they are all energy based and they all come from your perception and ideas of what touch and intimacy is.

My suggestion, if you really want to see this point through, is to stop all games you play around touching. Simply make an agreement with yourself to stop playing the energy games and if necessary walk away from points where you could compromise yourself. The other option is as you mentioned to place yourself in a situation where you will touch someone, but what will that go to prove - you will simply 'time-loop back to the same point where you will see a pattern building up in which you will have to arrange your life around being able to touch someone'. This I found only reaffirms the minds addiction because you are giving it the energy that it wants. The justification though becomes that of 'this makes sense, or 'but isn't touch natural?'

While you focus for a long time on stopping, not participating with games with people in your world where you know what you are really doing - and if you are in a situation where you are hugging someone for example - to not deny oneself by shouting at the person to get away from you - lol -but instead to breathe through the experience and not attach any value within the mind as 'this is so special'.

I suggest focus on working with self touch. I practiced this for a long time and initially it would 'freak me out' (a negative energy experience) when i would give myself hugs or touch myself. The mind would throw all kinds of excuses at me to not do it, in the form of thoughts (you know you are being silly right now, right?), and uncomfortability as sweating, physical pain etc. I pushed through this and only focused on this for months, to make sure that I got back to me first before I interacted with others. Otherwise I would always know that my attempt to say 'I was not addicted' was a lie, and that my addiction would always be directing me, using me as my mind to convince me - every step of the way. I did not want to be a pawn in a game called my life, I wanted to live for real, so that when I touch another or initiate intimacy with another I know that my mind is quiet and I am enjoying physical touch as the physical, but also not dependent on the moment. It is then also important I found that even if you walk in an agreement/relationship, after learning what it means to touch self and to be self intimate (being comfortable with yourself in all ways), it was still important for me in moments (and I still do this) to 'test myself'. If I am sitting with my partner for example and I start feeling 'horny' I must be able to in one breath get up and walk away, and at another time maybe I would initiate intimacy. However the point is to remain clear on any movements within self that it does not again build up a dependency and that even in an agreement/relationship, both partners must agree to sex, but also be fine to go without it for a while, without it changing either person or the agreement. Therefore both agree in a moment that you will now play and have sex, but also know that both are clear if there is no sex for a while, thus both partners know they are not being directed by sex. Therefore you want to practice these points for yourself for months and maybe even years before you go into an agreement and I insisted that my current agreement partner do the same - walk through your addictions first until we both apply ourselves for ourselves as equals within an agreement.

Rick Ross is a Cult and here are the reasons why

The Desteni website started towards the end of 2007. In October 2008 a thread is opened on the Rick Ross Forum, where they start discussing Desteni and that it is a potential Cult. Their point of reference are the cults and cult members from History that have caused harm to their members/the public. Now Rick Ross uses previous cults and their harmful activities as a benchmark to compare all other groups or organizations on the internet. If your group matches some of the characteristics of a harmful cult, especially some characteristics combined with other characteristics, then sorry my friend you are a cult.

Please note that when I refer to 'previous members of a harmful Cult' I am NOT saying we are a cult, I am referring to members of groups who in the past were shown to harm people or be potentially harmful and were thus classified as 'Cults or 'Cult members' on the internet. An example of such groups as classified as being a harmful cult on the internet would be: 'The 'Manson Family', 'Aum Shinrikyo', 'Restoration of the 10 Commandments', 'Order of the Solar Temple', 'Heaven’s Gate', 'Branch Davidians', 'Bonus. Jonestown', etc.

Let me explain. Soon after Rick Ross started discussing Desteni on their forum, in which they were pulling random pieces of information that they were observing and comparing them to the actions of harmful cults from the past, it was at this stage that some of the members of Desteni saw it as fitting to go and introduce ourselves, to explain to the Rick Ross members that we are not a harmful Cult, intending on world domination, but instead stand by our principles of creating a better world for everybody by working towards changing the current way of living, which causes immense suffering for a majority of beings on this planet. So as an example, one of the things they used as a 'characteristic' that we are a cult is the fact that we use terminology that they do not understand like 'self-forgiveness', 'self-honesty', 'oneness and equality and 'what is best for all'. These terms were explained on our web site within numerous videos, articles and the blogs and vlogs of Desteni members. The members of Rick Ross had now decided that because they did not understand the terminology, and therefore could not and would not agree with our terminology, we are therefore a cult because cults use confusing and conforming terminology. So already here, you can imagine the debates that pursued back and forth between the Rick Ross members and the Desteni members, because no matter what we did to further explain what was meant by the terminology we use, they would yell 'cult!' A few pages later the Rick Ross moderators started banning us, because according to them we were trying to brainwash the members through the repetition of our terminology. We were simply explaining what our terms mean, and what our principles are. So the more we explained, the more the members went up in arms about our mind-manipulation techniques. At the end of this blog I will provide you will a link to the beginning of the Rick Ross discussion so that you may view the discussion for yourself.

Some of you reading this blog have also already decided that Desteni is a Cult because you don’t like what we have to say and therefore because we say things you don’t like, you find us harmful to yourself and thus you have compared us to groups from the past who want to harm people = therefore in your mind we are a cult. I am not going to debate this point with you. In this blog I will share my insight of why Rick Ross is a Cult as well as a few other interesting web sites whom regard Rick Ross as a Cult.

So, the Desteni members realised that there was no point in continuing this discussion as the Rick Ross members had a quota to uphold, therefore they had to prove that so many groups were cults, or their purpose would no longer be. We continued to monitor on occasion, the Rick Ross forum and would share amongst ourselves the ridiculousness of how the members equate us to Cult members. Of course, the Rick Ross members, gleefully rejoiced in us leaving and explained amongst themselves that we left because we saw that our brainwashing was not going to work on that forum.

As I mentioned, the methods used by Rick Ross are based on taking aspects and mostly assumptions about Desteni and it's members and comparing that to previously dangerous cults. At the end of this thread I encourage you for a good laugh, if you have some basic common sense to not get lost in conspiracy theories, to go read the progression that the thread made and the reasons they used, to call us a cult.

An example would be - because we would not reveal our banking information as proof of money flow to them, it meant that we were keeping our money resources a secret and therefore = we are a cult.
Because the group was founded by a man, who preferred to keep his face off the internet so that the people who were enjoying and utilizing the tools could present their experiences, without it becoming about the founder = we are a cult.
Because most of the articles and videos at that stage were done through an Interdimensional Portal which functions like a channel, and that the members of Rick Ross did not see the validity of 'channels' = we are a cult
Because the founding members of Desteni are all living on a farm together, this was seen by the members as dubious = because perhaps if they were placed in a big group with many woman their minds would go wild with desire and therefore = we are a cult.
Because Desteni points out the deception within reality and that we will not stop until we have implemented a system of Equality that stops all greed based decisions, the members saw this as a form of 'new world order' and 'totalitarianism' and nazism' and therefore = we are a cult.
Because we had interdimensional communication with Adolph Hitler in the afterlife, and showed his ability to self forgive and his ability to comprehend who he was on earth and why he did what he did, this was seen as sinister and a taboo and therefore = we are a cult.
The members of Desteni fully support Desteni and will always attempt to explain what Desteni is about (duh) = therefore Desteni is a cult.

From there on it simply became about tying two random points together and from that making assumptions about Desteni, the Desteni farm and it's members and therefore proclaiming as if they are an actual authority on the actuality of what happens in this reality, that we are a cult.

I mean, if your only point of reference is the fact that you don’t understand or agree with our perspective or stand point and that people in the past who have done harmful things, share in some traits as a Desteni member, then you are not a very good 'expert'. You will notice that they pride themselves in saying that they 'investigated' us. This basically means that they compared points they noticed or assumed about us to that of harmful people from the past and therefore call us a cult to in their defense, 'prevent any further harm due to cult activity happening to people'. None of them had ever been to the Desteni farm, yet they make assumptions about what happens on the farm.

For example:

Because Bernard is the founder and lives on the farm and young woman live on the farm, it must mean that Bernard is doing inappropriate things with the young woman, because... in the past, cult members (remember this is the benchmark they are comparing us to) would sometimes lure young woman to have sexual relations with them. See how easy it is for Rick Ross and anybody claiming to 'investigate' Desteni to take one thread of information and assume what it means, based on your actual intention, which is to break down the organization because you don’t agree with it, but using the justification of…but other cults did this. In the end members were allowed to use this slippery slope technique to imply that Bernard Poolman lures woman to the farm to have indecent relationships with them. That Bernard Poolman was making large amounts of money from Desteni and was using a fake 'portal' to do so. That Bernard Poolman had kidnapped Sunette Spies from some abusive lifestyle and had brainwashed her into relations with him etc, etc, etc. No accountability for what they say and how they make up their assumptions.

This would be the equivalent of me saying that Charles Manson use to enjoy eating barbeque flavored potato chips. Rick Ross likes Barbeque flavoured potato chips. Therefore Rick Ross is a cult leader.
Jim Jones would interrogate new members of his group, until they revealed all their secrets to be forgiven so that they can be integrated into how the Jim Jones group functioned. Rick Ross does this and still does this and is therefore a cult.

Ridiculous.

Let's see how many of Rick Ross' own 'Cult Characteristics' they in fact possess. As I did a Google search to find the Rick Ross site so that I may quote their own 'Cult Characteristics' to compare them to, as they did Desteni to the harmful actions of 'cult members of the past', I came across two interesting sites, where Rick Ross is discussed as being a cult. Please check out these two pages and then I will take the Cult Characteristics from the Rick Ross web site to show that Rick Ross is a Cult:

http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/uploads/CultCharacteristics.htm
http://www.ukskeptics.com/forum/showthread.php/2669-Rick-Ross-cult-buster-or-cultist


Rick Ross is a Cult because of the following Reasons (see my perspective in ""):

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

" as mentioned above the members of Rick Ross completely undermined everything that we said and compared everything we said and do to that of past cult members and doing so under the banner of an authority in cult activities to be able to create assumptions and misrepresent information. No accountability was taken by members who ended up accusing us of for example 'forcing youngsters into relationships with us', or 'having to work as our slaves on the farm'. Even when members were caught fabricating lies, they were not banned from the forum."

2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

"It did not matter what we said, they were on a mission to compare all our actions and words to that of previous cult members. When we questioned them on their methods and why they would not divulge their financial information to the public, we were banned.

3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

" When asked to reveal our financial records, we asked them to reveal theirs and they refused, saying that we were stalling. What gives them the right to ask a group or organization to reveal their financial records to the public?'

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

"This has been covered when I discussed them comparing us to previous harmful members of cults"

5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

" If you are not seeing the world as they see the world and you are part of an organization the members do not agree with or even understand you are bullied in the form of 'Bash-Boarding'

6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

"everybody on the Rick Ross forum uses the same mind set of comparing organizations to past cult members. If you question a member of the forum you are given a warning to 'stick to the topic' which is 'bash-boarding' Desteni and that you are not allowed to question the integrity of the members. Many of the Desteni members were banned because they asked questions to the people who were making up assumptions and publishing that as deliberate Defamation and Denigration.


7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

"The entire Rick Ross web sites shows how they have attacked many groups in a similar fashion. They also within their threads provide links to external sites, where they abuse Desteni based on assumptions."


8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

"You either stick to the fear of what exists within the groups that are being questioned or the members themselves will be questioned for supporting the 'liars'.

9. The group/leader is always right.

"This has been covered in the fact that Rick Ross has created his 'Warning Signs' of a unsafe group, simply based on characteristics existent within people from history who become harmful, and not on the actual principle of a group and what they do. The groups are attacked because they match certain traits such as 'male leader', 'not disclosing financial records' and 'using methods not understood or agreed upon by Rick Ross's members'

10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

"this has been covered in all above points". No matter what we said, if you follow the Rick Ross thread on Desteni you will see that they could make any assumptions they wanted to and would have all the members supporting each other in the 'method' of the group."

I will not be giving my perspectives on the following points, because you will notice that all of these points I have already covered in my explanation of the 'Rick Ross method'.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supersede any personal goals or individual interests.

7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

8. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

Ten signs of a safe group/leader.

1. A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.

"Rick Ross is not a safe group' because they will make up stories and misrepresent information to fit their definition of a cult. They are harmful and malicious." Since these discussions have been allowed on Rick Ross, many comments have been placed on Youtube and other sites, towards Desteni members, fueled by the information they received on Rick Ross as the 'experts' - that they will 'kill us, raid and burn down our farm and 'fuck them up', etc. Yes - we have kept the actual comments for verification.

2. A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.

"Rick Ross was not willing to disclose his finances, the finances of its members and the financial support given by other groups to support Rick Ross in being an 'intervention specialist'. When we ask them which organizations they are linked to and where all their funding comes from and how the funding is raised for those organizations they refused and called it a 'manipulation tactic'. This question to them was in response to the exact same question being asked to Desteni by the administration of Rick Ross.

3. A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.

"Rick Ross only functions as a cult information forum, which as I have already discussed, bases all their information on the actions of past cult members, therefore they are not able to give a solid perspective on the Desteni research as they themselves have not researched what we have over 20 years, with recorded data as the experiences of those participating within the tools.

4. A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.

Rick Ross vilifies anybody who comes onto his forum saying that they support the group that is being bash-boarded by the Rick Ross members. Rick Ross exists for the one purpose which is to prove that groups that they do not agree with, within their understanding of the world, are cults. Therefore they use their understanding of what a cult is to create assumptions of people and represent this as facts, encouraging others to also bash-board through the Rick Ross mentality of 'take information, use slippery slope reasoning, now create an assumption you call fact and then publish it on a forum which prides itself in being 'an expert of cults'.

5. A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.

"the entire Rick Ross web site negatively reflects on all the members who participate in bash-boarding, denigration, exclusion, outing, harassment and threats'. If you were to go into the personal records of the members of Rick Ross who contribute towards the 'sharing of opinions' which then result in a group being categorized and labeled as a cult' you would find 'overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.'

6. A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.

"The members of Rick Ross react to people who choose not to see their families and friends and call such people 'cultists'. From there they give themselves permission as you will see in the thread to collect and create information about people who 'don’t live the same lives they do'. This supports the previous points that assumptions about what makes up a 'cult member' gives internet groups like Rick Ross permission to bully.

7. A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.

"I suggest go through the 100+ pages of the Rick Ross thread on Desteni and you will find the members escalating in their Bullying and allowance of Bullying based on fabrications."


8. A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.

"I suggest go through the 100+ pages of the Rick Ross thread on Desteni and you will find the members escalating in their Bullying and allowance of Bullying based on fabrications."

9. A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.

No - they aim at proving a organization to be a cult - they will stop at nothing to be able to do so - read the thread and see how information is misrepresented'. Read the research on the web site done into many other groups, where the have used the same techniques.

10. A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.

"If you are drawing your information from other groups/websites/forums where the same method of assumption based on slippery slope reasoning is used, then this indicates a mass attempt at bullying one group.


The original Thread on Rick Ross:


http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,62042,page=1